Curse

Hugh Manatee · Mar 27, 2009, 10:02 PM // 22:02

Before nightfall was released I was trying to get my factions based monk to the ring of fire islands to get the elites there. I advertised LFG M+B in abbadon's mouth and got accepted into a group of 6 other guys. We had like 3 rangers 2 warriors and an ele. I ask the party, 'howdy, we doing the mission and bonus right? I need to get RC", half the party agreed, half the party said no, and they were still arguing the point when the lead ranger, an R/E added a third warrior and hit the go button(this was before you could ping builds too). I asked him to stop the mission counter, begged "STOP STOP i CAN'T HEAL 7 GUYS BY MYSELF STOP, boot someone and take a healer hench at least". he didn't listen. I figure we're boned anyway so I may as well watch this play out, and while protting our guys up at the first big gate I see our ranger leader casting [meteor shower] [meteor], and [firestorm], then trying to shoot a guy on the parapet with [oath shot](he failed). I don';t know how but we managed to get through the gate, clear the base but they were still fighting about the bonus, then 1 guy went afk, another couple raged and instead of going back to the outpost they wanted to keep trying with 1 guy still alive afk(so if we wipe there's noone to save us and we don't go back to the outpost) I found a nice lava flow to dance in till I got bored, took the henchmen rolled the mission and haven't pugged much since then.

My monk's pve mission status is like a trail of fail, very few masters rewards across the map because while I can keep the perty from dying I can't really help them not fail if with their oath shot nukers. It's easy to pug as a monk, the catch is it's like you're that hitchhiker character george carlin played in jay and silent bob strike back.

Same deal on my warrior, before factions ever came out, I used to roll with a hammer, Dev>Crush>Holy Strike>Hammer Bash, nothing walked away from that. I take it into Thunder head keep, I get called a noob for bringing the hammer, the team fails. I go in with henchmen, and I beat the whole thing WITH BONUS. I had learned how to use the henchmen with a longbow, before the flags, you had to have a flat or longbow to pull foes with, you had to outrun your henchmen hit the pull, run back and then fight and hope they didn't over aggro, but they were better then real players. Same story in the thirsty river and other desert missions. I can't tell you how stupid and impatient that mission made some people. I'd have to calmy and delicately explain the concept of spiking, of how you can actually wipe out the whole forgotten team, then kill the priest at your leisure but still they'd try to gank the priest with the whole team raping out backliners.

See people get one to many experiences like the above, they enjoy the game, the mechanics and settings, and if they're lucky they find a regular friends list they can play with, form a guild or alliance with and have fun with their regular buddies, but otherwise they get fed up with taking chances on random unknown people.

Also contrary to what you may think, heroes may have saved pugs, remember how long to had to wait in the maguuma jungle for 1 monk to zone into an area and get snapped up by 5 different parties so you wouldn't be stuck with alesia's dumb non hex removing ass? Anyone who was Henching before or was about to reach that breaking point wouldn't be pugging any more then if there were never heroes in NF, but now at least you have a shot at filling out a decent party if you do pug.

Apollo Smile · Mar 27, 2009, 10:24 PM // 22:24

Yeah, PUGs for dungeons are hard to find. Alliance of large guild will remed that.

Yawgmoth · Mar 27, 2009, 10:48 PM // 22:48

People don't group, not only there is no convenient way to find other people to form a team, the power and convenience of heroes killed the incentive for players to group with others. PvE has degenerated to a single player game, players who wanted and enjoyed multiplayer action quit long ago and the fun died.
The only cure is GW2... if it's done right this time.

Verene · Mar 27, 2009, 11:58 PM // 23:58

I don't PUG because I don't want to deal with the idiot that is the average player of any game. Not to mention the fact that since I don't play super high in-demand professions (an Assassin who doesn't rely on perma-Shadow Form?!), it's not as though I'd be quickly picked up for a group anyway.

GW is a game that's set so you don't have to play with other people if you don't want to (or don't have people around to play with). I either play with one of my friends and our heroes, or just go full H/h. And it's significantly more fun that way - the very few times I've ever tried playing with random people it's been an unqualified disaster. Screw that.

Perkunas · Mar 28, 2009, 04:13 AM // 04:13

I guess I am one of the few that likes to play with a PuG, H/H gets a little boring. Of the few groups I do get into, most are willing to discuss a strategy. The biggest problem with groups I am finding, is everyone has been through most quests and missions several times, and their way is the best way. I go along and if we wipe, we wipe. That is the way it was back in late 2005 & early 2006, you played with others, no matter the outcome. Henches were and are, IMO, not that reliable. Heroes are fine, especially the monks, for many situations, but give me a group of people to beat the boredom aspect.

DreamWind · Mar 28, 2009, 04:34 AM // 04:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheodenKing

This is based exclusively on YOUR experience with the guilds you've been in.

My experience asking everybody I know as well. There are a LOT of fairly inactive guilds nowadays. I have a friend who is in one of the biggest PvE alliances in the game, and even in that alliance everybody mostly does things on their own. Yes they have scheduled times to do things, but what about all the times I want to do a certain mission and nobody else wants to (or nobody else is on who wants to)? There is no cure for that short of soloing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Targren

They largely play other games.

Therein lies the problem. Personally I bought the game partially because it was a team game and not a solo game. I like the option to solo, but the game being a solo game contributes to me not playing it anymore.

Chasing Squirrels · Mar 28, 2009, 04:55 AM // 04:55

The game is pretty much single player unless you have a guild.

Nessar · Mar 28, 2009, 05:39 AM // 05:39

I used to like pugs back when I started 2 years ago. Now they just plain suck and I avoid them at all cost. Only reason I do avoid is because my experience with pugs has gone downhill. I also have no patience with them >.>
Finding an active guild that does stuff when you want to, is like a charr dropping an ecto. Ok, maybe not that rare, but still.
Imo, if you're looking to get things done h/h, find some friends, or get lucky and find an active guild.

BadgerznPie · Mar 28, 2009, 05:25 PM // 17:25

PvX/ Elitism also helped destroy PUGs. Heroes don't wtfkick you from the party just because you don't run some cookie cutter build that everyone expects your profession to run.

Marth Reynolds · Mar 28, 2009, 08:23 PM // 20:23

Clannies/Alliance groups -> Hero & henchway -> random ppl

clannies usually respect different builds ppl bring and don't often suck to much or go afk.
PUGS, meh in theory should be better then henchway but still seen idiots that tops weird AI.
Henchies don't leave, afk or kick you and you can select what you bring (big plus if you need certain skills and some ppl don't have it on mains).

Bottem line is, get a decent clan/alliance or don't expect a decent group :P

Cab Tastic · Mar 28, 2009, 10:09 PM // 22:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clone

The days of the PUG ended the day anet nerfed Ursan. There are certainly other reasons as well, but I don't think the importance of Anet's nerfs should be underplayed.

To remedy a vocal minority, Anet alienated a happy majority who enjoyed playing what Anet had originally designed. They claimed that people would find other groups with other builds. They didn't. They found other games, and I beleive this was one of the main reasons why.

I kind of sat on the fence with regard to the ursan nerf. But knowing what we know now I now agree it was a bad idea.

If you did fancy joining up with random strangers it was at least possible in the ursan days.

Red Sonya · Mar 28, 2009, 11:17 PM // 23:17

The game content is so small and after 3 years most everyone has played all of it more than once. I get sick to my stomach just thinking of playing a chapter over with a new character now. Factions is ugly and boring, Prophecies has been played to death and Nightfall is merely ok, but, pretty linear from start to finish. EOTN is the last bastion for bored players after than you'll spend most of your time on forums complaining that there's nothing to do or pugs to group with.

What they need to do is make some NEW mods and more NEW KEWL SKINS and change that damn loot code so more stuff drops in normal mode again.

Malice Black · Mar 29, 2009, 12:25 AM // 00:25

OR you could find a new game

There is life beyond GW you know.

Steps_Descending · Mar 29, 2009, 01:17 AM // 01:17

This gets me thinking :

What would have happened if ANet had limited henches so that we would NEED to play with people?... At least for important things (missions, dungeon... Not like traveling or farmign an area)

I mean, if every new player had needed to learn to play basic strategy, wouldn't the game be in better shape than it is right now? If you could grab some people, enter a dungeon and have them used to ''tank'' part of a group while the rest disrupt/kill the mobs that didn't catch agro, have 1-2 monks patching up the dmg... (You know, people who know a bit how to play in team)
Wouldn't the game be more alive now? Compared to the DiabloII-like activity we have now : people party for 3 reasons:A) they can handle it anyway if the rest of the party is dead, B) it is a run so repetitive it could be botted (see: elite area farming run) or C) it is guildy/friends.

Come to think of it, how come no one seem to know how to play? Looking at other games : either the game is just hard/uninstinctive/complicated (maybe having tank&aggro system isnt so bad), ANET really screwed up their ''in-game teaching system'', or they expected us to teach new player (in which case maybe we're the idiots or they should have limited henches and heroes).

FalconDance · Mar 29, 2009, 04:26 PM // 16:26

I've been playing for four years and am the point that I really like to PuG. Only problem with that is PuGs seem increasingly to demand certain builds (straight from the pages of PvXwiki 'cause we all know those are the only ones that work! /sarcasm) and in four years, I've worked out ones that work *for me*. I don't mind suggestions; I do mind being kicked simply because I don't use dual echos on my mesmer, all fire nuke on my ele or <fill in the blank for other professions> in general PvE.

Most carry heroes now. I like heroes, don't get me wrong, but it is very annoying for those of us who like to group with others with a pulse. Of course, sometimes I wonder if PuG members actually do have a pulse, judging by their play style - or rather, lack of style...........

Zahr Dalsk · Mar 29, 2009, 04:35 PM // 16:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ham_Fisted

I'm kinda new to the game, maybe three months solid gameplay, but theres something I don't quite understand. Does anyone actually group for dungeons? It just doesn't seem like something you should be soloing, and I have yet to find a PUG for anything but NM HoS. It seems like fun and I find it a shame that people would be more willing to pay someone to play for them.

Ritualist have no place in "balanced" group. So that all out for me.

Hyper Cutter · Mar 29, 2009, 09:44 PM // 21:44

No one groups for dungeons because most of them aren't worth the time...

kazjun · Mar 31, 2009, 12:52 AM // 00:52

Hyper Cutter hits it on the head for me. Apart from all the issues of pugging, dungeons aren't just worth it. Pugging missions is one thing, most are short and you start right in the outpost. But most dungeons involve you getting there and then a couple of levels on top of that. And some of the levels are really long. As in either get an A/E to run you to the next portal or you slowly grind yourself through the place. And the longer something goes for, the greater the chance a pug will bail. Between over aggro and getting pwned, someone going afk to simply quitting cause it takes too long, a long slog is not for pugs. Guildies and friends, H/H, you can count on sticking with you all the way. Pugs, not so much.

Then you get to the end, kill the boss and you get a diamond and an onyx and you go 'WTF?, why'd I bother coming back here'. It's not fun and doesn't pay well enough to be worth being a job. The first time is fun, a few more after that is okay, but then it gets old and becomes a chore. Especially since so many are also pretty gimicky. Bring the exact build and you roll it easy, the wrong build and you'll be slogging it out in a battle of attrition. And getting a good team build in a pug is, well...

Unless you're farming for a VS or a BDS, there's very few dungeons worth repeating once you've filled your nm and hm books. About the only dungeon even worth the effort is cof since you start right in town and it's a quick short run if you don't care about points. Plus you can even get other people to run it for you and still make a profit if you're sick of doing the place over and over.

In short, dungeons been out too long for people to not have done them all already, and they're not worth the time for most to do them again, let alone in a pug.

The Little Viking · Mar 31, 2009, 01:02 AM // 01:02

My guild does kinda a fun thing every week. We have a weekly vote on our forums and the place with the most votes is where we go. We have a set time for this and those that go are also the ones that get to vote for the next place. Due to schedules in everyones personal life we only do this once a week, but the rest of the time we all still pretty much get together and do all kinds of fun things. Yes, we all mainly just go with guild / alliance members because pugs are just to undependable. And I do agree, it is a shame that pugs are obsolete in the game, it was always interesting to see how others played...until you run across that one monk that thinks that DP means he can heal better....yes, true story.

Sweet Mystery · Apr 01, 2009, 09:10 AM // 09:10

PUG... eewww no... too many people want it their way or else these days and wont work together. Guild groups ftw... without my guild I wouldn't have got my LMotN title I am sure!